Episode 49: Investing In Senior Living – Featuring Theresa Maskrey

What’s inside:

Michelle: Hi. I’m Michelle Bosch, real estate investor, mom, wife, and host of the “In Flow Podcast.” And I’m passionate about helping women invest in land and apartments. Join me each and every week for real estate investing strategies and interviews with thought leaders that will leave you inspired and ready to step into flow for inflows of cash, inflows of ease, and inflows of graces in your life. Now, here on YouTube are the video versions of my podcast, and in order for you to get my latest information, please go ahead and subscribe. And now, let’s go.

Welcome to the “In Flow Podcast.” I am your host, Michelle Bosch. I’m very excited this morning to record this interview with this amazing lady. Her name is Theresa Maskrey. Theresa is chief operating officer for Shepherd Premier Senior Living. She has over 30 years of experience in the health care marketplace. She was a senior VP of, you know, a big corporate, you know, company in the medical field. She worked side by side with long-term care owner-operators, and now she oversees operations at Shepherd’s existing homes and is primarily responsible for opening up new homes once renovation is completed. So, I am really excited to have you here and talk about, you know, assisted living. So welcome to the “In “Flow Podcast,” Theresa.

Theresa: Thanks. I’m happy to be here.

Michelle: Yes. We are very happy to have you as I was telling you, you know, towards the beginning of the show before we started our recording. I attended a couple of months ago a real estate meetup here in town, and there was a couple ladies that were interested in, you know, finding homes for their elderly parents, and they just couldn’t find adequate things that, you know, were up to their standards here in the market. And they’re like, you know, “I feel a calling, I feel the bug that this is what I’m supposed to do that there is an opportunity also from the real estate, you know, standpoint and that I could basically be, you know, doing well while doing good.” So, how did you get started with assisted living? Can you tell us a little bit about your story and…yeah, a little bit of about [crosstalk 00:02:15]?

Theresa: I am one of those gals that burned out of corporate America. I worked very hard to get the office and the title and the responsibility and the job. And, you know, I’m a mother of five and grandmother of eight. I’m married to a wonderful man, and the job was just consuming everything. I’m very driven and so on, you know, way more focused on getting things done than I need to. So, to make a long story short, I just burned completely out.

I took a year off and was really at a point of like redirection in my life. You know, where do I go from here? I’m 61 today. I was probably 57, 58 at the time, not done. I could have, but I knew there was more. I knew there was something better, and so a friend introduced me to a young man named Brandon Schwab.

I have children his age. I got close older than the guy, right? He is a real estate acquisition, developer, flipper, but he had traveled to Central Florida to visit his father-in-law. His father-in-law’s a retired chiropractor, and he was playing the piano and telling corny jokes in an old folk song. But in this example, the home was actually a house, not a nursing home or a big building. So, it just dropped in Brandon’s heart.

He looked around this house. He saw these seniors living peacefully and comfortably at home. He was with his wife. He had his boat hooked to his truck, and he drove the 24 hours back to Chicago and started Shepherd Premier Senior Living. About a year later, I met him, and I didn’t know what to do with them. We had lunch every Tuesday for months just talking and dreaming, and I caught his heart.

I caught what he wanted to do, and I was so focused on his dream. I just went after it with him, and then I started handling his marketing. I’m a woman of a certain age, and so if I tell you I know about caring for your mind, you’re gonna believe me a lot faster than you’re gonna believe the 38-year-old handsome fella, right? So, I started doing the marketing, and I left the marketing again. And I was driving back home, and it hit me, “This is what I want to do. This isn’t just his dream. This is my dream too.” And so I went home, and I spoke to my husband, and within 24 hours, we were investor owner-operators with Brandon. That was in 2016, and we’ve never looked back. We were thrilled and delighted to be doing this. So, it’s a quirky story.

Michelle: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Theresa: I didn’t envision any of this, but we’re certainly loving it.

Michelle: Wonderful. And so I know that at some point you also were looking, you know, for care, long-term care and assisted living for your…

Theresa: I cared for my mother-in-law for 12 years and then got through that horrible experience and then right after that my father, who in his 70s was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s, and we ultimately lost him at 72. I ran a sales career in the health care space…a sales force in the health care space, and I thought I knew my way around it. I thought I knew where the good help was. But what I learned from trying to serve my own family is there isn’t any good help. Most of it, you know, I used to go around saying, “I’ve seen the good and the bad and the ugly in healthcare,” what was mostly bad and ugly, which, you know, I was aware of in my career, but when it touched my family, that was a different deal. It changed completely when I needed to use the healthcare system.

Michelle: Yeah. Especially like if you’re, you know, younger. Like even like 5, 10 years ago, I didn’t think about that, you know, for my mother, but now my mother 75. She’s still strong. She still travels back and forth and does everything on her own, you know, drives and so on and so forth. But now I mean, I’m 43, and I’m starting to think, “Well, you know, if I look out a decade, you know, 10 years from now, how is that gonna look?” You know, Sophia is still going to be…I have a 12-year-old. So I’m like she’s gonna be in college. So I’m gonna have…you know, still be caring for, you know, her to a certain extent and caring. You know, I’m gonna be the sandwich generation, you know, caring for an elderly and, you know, still taking care of still a young adult. And yeah, those are things that now I’m like, “Okay. This is actually getting closer, closer than I think, you know.”

Theresa: It doesn’t give you any warning. It just shows up one day. You know, your elderly loved ones are fine until they’re not, and when they’re not, they stay in a bad state for a while. And it’s still, although you anticipate it on some level. It still comes as quite a shock, and you don’t expect the role to reverse. You don’t expect to be responsible for your parents, but, you know, lo and behold, we found ourselves there with just what you just described, two teenage children at home, two careers.

You know, our belief system at the time was, “Keep her with her family.” What’s best for a senior is to be with their family, and that is not true. It was totally the wrong thing to do in our example because although I’m a pretty good daughter-in-law, I’m not a trained caregiver. And I didn’t recognize the signs of decline and age and dementia in our example, and so I underserved these people that I loved very much. And so my experience really was horrible, so the idea that we found a better way. It doesn’t have to be bad. It’s not like the rest of their life is gonna be one bad day after the next bad day. It didn’t have to be that way at all, and so to be able to offer a solution that it feels really good.

Michelle: One beautiful. Now, tell me, what is your current focus right now? Like how many homes do you have now open, and what is, in general, the current focus and the outlook?

Theresa: We are in the northwest suburbs of Chicago. So we’re probably an hour from Chicago by train. And the way this works is that it has to be a residential setting. The dwelling has to be a ranch, a spacious ranch, and it has to be…and I’m saying has to be, must be, nestled into a neighborhood, and here’s why. Seniors age and they decline. They lose their health, they lose their independence, but the other thing they lose is their neighborhood and their community and a home. And so most of us don’t live in a big building, and the predominant option at least here in North Chicago is a large building, which is a very different way of living than most people live.

And so the idea that we can give them a home and a life quality with all the clinical standard of care that they need, it’s just a better alternative. And we’re serving the senior, our care staff, and that family because they get to go to sleep at night feeling, you know, they wanna fix everything they can’t, but they go to sleep at night feeling pretty good that they got best possible for mom.

Michelle: Absolutely. Now, let me ask you a little bit about the real estate opportunity also behind assisted living, you know, that comes from being able to provide this great care, you know, care that, you know, some of us think, “Yeah. The home probably is the best but not in all situations,” so, you know, for the elderly. From a demographic standpoint, a supply and demand standpoint across the U.S., what is the opportunity from a real estate standpoint as well?

Theresa: There is such a big giant real estate opportunity in this residential assisted living model that you couldn’t over-describe it. And I say that because the influx of seniors, the graying of America, if you will, it’s creating a housing crisis for seniors that the healthcare system, the economy. No one’s gonna be prepared for this when it happens. It’s the largest population group ever to flood into the healthcare system, and it’s gonna make a huge demand, and so anything you can do to get ready for it.

So I understand, put up a big building. Put 120 beds in it. I want those people to succeed. I want those buildings to work, but frequently, they don’t because the national stat for caregiver ratio, which is a big determination of care, is 1 to 20, is 1 to 30 or 50 at night. These residents typically are incontinent. They need to be checked and changed every two hours. Just do the match. No one’s getting any care. Our care ratio is one to five.

Michelle: Got it.

Theresa: We licensed with the state. We buy a piece of real estate. We renovate it. We’re licensed with the state. We get the physical site ready, sprinklers, security on the doors, nothing too crazy. We open the home, fill the beds, and we start providing the care. And I wish I could tell you that it’s a whole lot more complicated than that. It’s really not.

Michelle: Got it.

Theresa: It’s a basic pretty simple business model that is very, very lucrative, which to me is the byproduct.

Michelle: Yeah, absolutely. I always say that there’s a spiritual character to money. It’s not the money…you know, the dollar transaction per se that gives…you know, that it’s charged. It’s the reason why you’re doing and the impact that you’re having on people. And I’m all about, you know, making money in incredibly meaningful ways, you know, in something that touches your heart.

So, I know you mentioned earlier something about…because I have here, you know, where do you invest and how do you go about selecting a home. So right now you guys are only in the Midwest, and it’s a home that needs to have, like you said, ranch-style. When you say, you know, land around it nestled within neighborhood, like what size property are we looking at, one acre, two acres?

Theresa: I would say a minimum of one. Our smallest property is on 2.3 acres. And the reason I say that is these homes don’t have a sign, and they don’t have a parking lot. They’re luxurious, beautiful homes. And when our residents look outside, they see a vast lawn or a wooded forest, or they see potentially another neighbor. They don’t see anything institutional inside or outside. So they’re not getting a message every day that I’m sick and I’m old and I’m near death. It’s a whole different atmosphere.

Michelle: It’s a whole different atmosphere. Now, as far as square footage, like how big a home are we looking at?

Theresa: Well, I mentioned earlier that the care ratio that we manage to is one to five. So that would say at least here in the state of Illinois that a house that could accommodate 10 seniors is optimal because you can easily staff in that one to five care ratio. The smallest property we have, and it feels a bit crowded with 10 seniors in it is 4,600 square feet.

Michelle: Got it.

Theresa: We are renovating other properties that are 10,000 square feet and 18,000 square feet, which might be too big in the end. We won’t know until we get the renovation done and see if we can turn it into a cozy home. But these people are on equipment. They’re in wheelchairs and they’re on walkers, so you need wide halls, and you need square footage.

Michelle: Yeah, absolutely. Now, what is the typical capital investment needed in order to open any home?

Theresa: You know, I really need Brandon to answer this question well, but I would say the house is gonna be about a half a million dollars in this market to get enough space in a neighborhood where you wanna be. We do aim for a demographic that is in an affluent neighborhood because assisted living is entirely private pay.

Michelle: Got it.

Theresa: Most people have this belief that the government or some insurance provision is gonna be there, and it’s not. It’s all out-of-pocket. It’s all private pay. So you wanna target those families that are able to do it.

Michelle: Yeah, absolutely.

Theresa: So that’s a big factor. So the house in a half a million dollars is $750,000 price point. It’ll be a few hundred thousand dollars of investment to get the physical site of the house ready, and that is a wide hallway that I described. You’re gonna have hard surface, waterproof floors that are as warm and inviting as you can. We do carpet in the bedroom. For example, we have to create…we have to prevent an elopement risk. So there are keypads on the doors. So they’re secured. There’s a sprinkler system. We have to address the septic. So you’ve got a few hundred thousand dollars there getting the house ready for the site, and then you’ve got the whole licensing process for caregivers.

Michelle: Yeah. I’m assuming there’s all these regulatory steps in licensing. Is that like a big hurdle to open a new facility like in terms of time like when you decide, “Okay, it’s time for us too. We found a great site”? From acquisition to renovation to permitting and licensing, what time frame are you looking at?

Theresa: Well, it feels like an eternity. I think in truth it’s just a handful of months to get it all done, but that’s gonna really vary a lot by the state you’re in. So these homes, these residential care homes are really popular and very common in warm weather states. We’re in a cold-weather state that has a very high percentage of seniors. So, we have actually tapped an untapped market with a very lucrative, you know, senior living business model. And I would encourage everybody to consider those cold-weather states. This option just isn’t available.

Michelle: What kind of returns is someone…like if they’re looking, you know, from a business model standpoint, what kind of returns can somebody expect, you know, from either if they had the capital to go out there and, you know, purchase a real estate, renovate it, and then partner with someone that would be a great operator that has all the qualifications to provide that, you know, top-notch standard of service and care? What are we looking at?

Theresa: I would say that you’re talking about…you know, if you do a large property certainly in this market, you’re in a 700, $800,000 investment price point. And we have an investment model that we offer that offers a 10% preferred return. But the other part of this that I think is so important is that the business model itself.

So, if you have a ranch home and you have seven bedrooms in it, and you can share a bedroom. So you have 10 residents in a 7-bedroom house. A lease for the care and the space in the home is an average of 5,500 to $6,500 per month per bedroom. So after you take the third resident, the balance of the revenue stream of that property is profit.

Michelle: Gotcha. Yeah.

Theresa: It’s very, very lucrative. The gross margins are easily in the 35, 38% range.

Michelle: Perfect.

Theresa: There’s a nice yield from an investor, and there’s a nice yield from an operator. The operator will have all the headaches though.

Michelle: Now, do you build facilities from the ground up? Have you guys done any building from the ground up, or do you always look for existing stuff?

Theresa: We’re about to. Well, first of all, I have to correct you, Michelle. You’re beautiful and I love you, but we hate the F-word. Facility is not part of us. So whenever anybody says the facility word around us, we always correct them because we’re residential.

Michelle: My red flags go up. Yeah.

Theresa: No, it’s kind of a standing joke with us. We’re having a hard time.

Michelle: No. Absolutely. Thank you for the education. I appreciate it.

Theresa: It’s such a big distinction for this. There are plenty of facilities out there. There aren’t very many of these homes at all. But in the market we’re in, we’re not finding spacious ranch properties that we think are suitable. When we do find them, the renovation is a huge burden both in terms of headache and costs. So next year, there’s a Del Webb property, which is a 55-plus senior living property that is home for 5,700 seniors in a nearby town. And we bought 15 acres of land that shares a fence with that neighborhood, and we’re going to build 6 homes that are 8,000 square foot each, and next year, we’ll have some experience with what it’s like to build one. Is it easier? Do you get there faster? We’ll find out.

Michelle: Many of us have aging parents, you know, and like I said, we’re in this aging, you know, this sandwich generation. So is it a per room, right, or is it a per person? What is somebody looking at? I mean, is this like 5 to $8,000 a month? Like what are we looking at to be at the level of care that you’re offering where it feels like a home, where it doesn’t feel like a facility that it’s like, “I’m in a community, it feels like a family, and so on and so forth”?

Theresa: The first thing I would say is that the warm weather states are gonna have a lower rate for the bedroom and the care. In a cold-weather state where it doesn’t exist, you’re basically charging. What we did was go to the middle of the rates that all the big buildings around us are offering. We took that rate, and we flattened it out. The reason we flattened it out is because there’s a game out there where you offer a low rate, you get mom. It’s always mom and it’s always a daughter in building this part of life. Sorry to any guys I’m offending, but it’s how it goes.

But there’s in a warm-weather state a much, much lower rate than there is here. And there’s this game of you offer a low rate, and then as mom declines, you jack the rate up based on whatever level additional care is required. And I have a fundamental ethical-moral issue with that because the families that come to us they know one thing. They know how much money they have. They don’t know how long mom’s gonna live. They don’t know how ill she’s gonna become in her journey. So we offer a flat all-inclusive rate that does not go up when they decline and they lease a bed in a shared bedroom with another resident or a private bedroom. And the lease, it really looks like an apartment lease [inaudible 00:22:36].

Michelle: Are we talking like year leases or is it a much longer-term?

Theresa: You know, it looks like a year lease, but it’s really month-to-month. We have a 30 day out and so do our families, but it includes everything, meals, transportation, salon services, housekeeping, laundry. We have the medical director.

Michelle: Whoa, salon services. I like that.

Theresa: Exactly. We pretty much take over that senior, and so daughters and sons get to be daughters and sons. And we get to carry the water for the care.

Michelle: Yeah. Got it. Got it. Got it. How do you incorporate, you know, inflows of ease and grace and faith in those homes and in your daily life? How does this all come?

Theresa: Well, this one’s easy for me. So, most seniors, if you look around senior living, they feel like God has forgotten about them, and they’re just gonna sit around and wait till their body gives up. They’re just sitting around waiting to die. I have a fundamental belief in Jesus Christ and Father God that that is not how he is at all, that he has a wonderful plan for these seniors. He hasn’t forgotten them for a minute.

And so if you confront that at this part of their life, and you invite them to find another way to think about a good, loving benevolent creator God who hasn’t forgotten about you, you take this huge burden away. And then you start really celebrating the good days that come and not overly focusing on the bad days to come. So, we really introduced that. We’re not faith-based. I feel very strongly that anybody of any faith could live in our house quite well. But we do feel like…we do encourage that because that’s where we believe peace and comfort originate from. And so if you really wanna be good at that stuff, you gotta start there.

Michelle: Yeah, absolutely. You personally, how do you bring grace into your life on a daily basis? So you’re operating. I mean, you do have the stresses of, you know, the operations of not just the one home but many homes, and you have a life outside of that, you know, and we’re all so busy. And how do you make time? Are there any rituals that you practice on your daily life to keep you, you know, going, feeling powerful, feeling, you know, ready for the day? What are some things?

Theresa: Well, my faith is where it all begins, but one thing I would say as a woman later in years versus the way I was when I was 43 is this. I am very picky about what I will allow as a stressor in my life. Anything that stresses my life better be tied to what I believe my purpose is and what I’m supposed to be doing. And if those things are gonna stress me out, I’m easily reminded, “This is what I am meant to do,” and the stress just falls. But if you’re not connected with your purpose…

Michelle: With the purpose.

Theresa: …with the higher calling of what you’re doing if it’s just about getting money. And I know what I’m talking about because I did it that way too. I just chased the almighty dollar for years. But to devote whatever skills or gifts God gave me back into building up the kingdom of God in a way that is meaningful that serves other people, as long as the stressor is tied to that, I’ll take it. I don’t expect not to have any, but I expect to approve what is allowed to stress me out.

Michelle: That is a very important distinction. You know, of many women that I have interviewed, you’re the very first one to say, you know, “Well, first of all, you know, I have like this clear boundary of what I even allow, you know, to occupy my headspace.” Do you know what I mean?

Theresa: Right. It’s kind of an authority thing. You can’t give stress a place of authority in your life.

Michelle: Yeah, absolutely.

Theresa: That’s where your faith is gotta be.

Michelle: Yeah. Now, what do you attribute your success as a woman, you know, as a person, as an entrepreneur, as an investor, as an operator? You know, we tend to like separate those things out, but we’re all one. It’s like, you know, it’s one big full life. What do you attribute your success to?

Theresa: Well, it’s funny that you say that, and I don’t mean this to be negative. But I don’t think of myself as successful. I think of myself more as free to continue growing and developing and becoming the woman that God created me to be in the beginning. And honestly, it’s flattering to be thought of at 61 as a successful woman, but I could have gotten here about 20 years ago if I’d been a little smarter, right?

Michelle: Mm-hmm.

Theresa: So, I don’t think of it that way. I think of it more about being free to be myself to be the woman that God created me to be on a journey that God set me on with a good end. And that’s a little bit different than climbing the corporate ladder or being an entrepreneur or being a player in the senior living space. It’s all mindset thing.

Michelle: Yeah, absolutely. We all have, you know, different definitions of what, you know, success, and we get to now be I feel like a generation of women that get to redefine what success means to each and every one of us. Do you know what I mean?

Theresa: Yeah.

Michelle: So, totally.

Theresa: We don’t deserve success to be labeled in a common way. We’re all individual creating…

Michelle: Unique. Absolutely. What are three pieces of advice that you would have for women out there in general? Now looking back you said, you know, I could have gotten here 20 years earlier, you know, to be at this point of incredible satisfaction and fulfillment in what you’re doing, you know, on a daily basis, like just any piece of advice that you would have for yourself, for your 40-year-old self.

Theresa: Sure. I had a job where I had $250 million quota that I had to hit through a bunch of really crazy talented salespeople, and I hit it. And I was so proud of that, but in the end, all I did was try to prove a point that didn’t need to be made.

So if your life is about proving a point, then you’re gonna make sure the point you’re trying to prove is tied to a faith of value, a long-term achievement that is in your heart, not just in your wallet, not just in your pay plan. You know, it’s gotta live in your heart, and you’ve gotta believe that you’re not alone that, you know, there’s a benevolent, loving creator God, who had a plan for creating us.

He practiced here in the countries we were born in at the ages we are today, and none of it was happenstance. All of it is calculated and ordered. And if we could just believe that He’s good and that He’s on our side and that…here’s the painful thing though. I have learned though that we’re really results-focused, right? We’re all about, you know, getting to that end goal result. He’s more about the process we go through together because that’s how we learn. And so if I knew that in my 40s, I’d probably be way further down the road than I am today.

Michelle: Wonderful. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that perspective. Now, it occurred to me as you were speaking, you know, of being very heart-based, and earlier in the conversation you said, you know, “I somehow got in touch with Brandon, and it was the right match.” When we look for partners in partnerships, what made you think, “Yes, this is it”? What are some things to look out in partnerships to know whether this is what is going to be a good fit or not?

Theresa: You know, with Brandon and I, we had this crazy connection immediately. I’m his mother’s age. You know, and I kept thinking, “Well, you know, I am…” You know, around these parts I’m known as Mama T.

Michelle: I saw that in your bio. Yeah.

Theresa: So at first, I’m thinking I’m just having this motherly affection for him, but it was so much more than that. And for me, I didn’t understand the connection until I tried to walk away. I was very arrogant at the time and very non-entrepreneurial and very focused on, you know, I have a resume. I mean, I have a resume that travels. So why would I do this small local entrepreneurial thing when I’ve worked so hard to know what I know? And so once I let go of the pride, I just had this peace. I felt compelled to be in the relationship and along with that compulsion to be there, I just had this crazy peace. So I stayed, and now look what happened.

Michelle: Yeah. It’s much more than a logical mental exercise that you went through of risk and benefit analysis. It was much more of a sense of how you felt. You know, that’s one of women’s superpowers is intuition and this ability of empathy and connection and, you know, web thinking. And this is, you know, what I feel like you tune into to decide, “Okay. This is a good partnership, you know.” Maybe sometimes things look great, fantastic on paper in numbers, pencil, and greatly, but hey, you know, don’t forget to check in with, “How does this feel, you know, and how…?”

Theresa: That’s really it. That’s the one thing I would add to what I just said is, you know, when you’ve got an aggressive goal and you’ve got a big payoff if you hit your goal, you do whatever you have to do. And if you enjoy it, great, but if you don’t enjoy it, you’re gonna do it anyway, but you gotta reach the goal. And what you just said is so important. The way you feel about what you’re doing is a huge indicator about whether or not you should be doing it.

Michelle: Yeah, absolutely.

Theresa: Okay. Just listen.

Michelle: Yeah. If someone wanted to know more about what you’re doing…you know, any of the ladies that are listening to this, you know, are in the Midwest area, or just anyone in general out there that is seeking care that has an elderly parent. You know, my audience is primarily women, and it’s the women the ones that are looking out. When that time comes, it’s us, you know, doing the leg work, doing the research. Where can people find out more about you and reaching?

Theresa: Well, you’ll find these, you know, cutesy management bios on shepherdpremierseniorliving.com. So please go there to learn more about MEDLINE. MEDLINE…about Shepherd. If you wanna know more about me, just call this number, 815-276-9600 or on theresa@shepherdresidentialcare.com. And I am completely available.

Michelle: Wonderful. Thank you so much, Theresa. It has been an honor having you…

Theresa: Happy to do it.

Michelle: …and speaking and talking about something that I think a lot of us, like I said, you know, kind of like put off. You don’t wanna think about your parent, you know, ever, you know, having to, you know, deal with any difficulties or so on. But the reality of life is that, yeah, that at some point, you know, in our lives, they were the one holding our hand and helping us through those first steps. And at the end of their life, it’s gonna be us also holding their hand and walking them, you know, through that transition.

Theresa: So true.

Michelle: So, thank you so much for your time for…

Theresa: Thank you for having me. I’m happy to do it.

Michelle: I loved it, and I learn something new every day.

Theresa: Awesome.

Michelle: I’m like, “No more facility.”

Theresa: Yeah. No F-word. No F-word.

Michelle: It sounds like prison, you know.

Theresa: It does, doesn’t it?

Michelle: Yes. Yes.

Theresa: That’s not how people should live.

Michelle: Yeah. The more that you said it, I’m like, “It does sound like prison, you know.”

Theresa: Sure. That’s the trend we’re bucking.

Michelle: Yeah. That’s beautiful. Thank you so much.

Theresa: Thank you for having me.

Michelle: Absolutely. I’d love to have you in the future and you telling me the story about how it went when you build from the ground up, and I’m interested. Do you know what I mean?

Theresa: Yeah.

Michelle: Just to see the new [inaudible 00:36:09], the new experiences, and any new things that you might, you know, wanna share with us. So thank you so much.

Theresa: Thank you for having me, Michelle. Nice to meet you.

Michelle: The same. I hope this episode left you feeling inspired and ready to get inflows of cash, inflows of light, and inflows of faith in your life. I welcome your reviews on iTunes. Please leave me a review and help me create an amazing community of women inflow. Thank you as always for sharing your voice by going to michellebosch.com and joining the conversation about this show. And while you’re there, grab a copy of my “Ten Commandments to Living a Life Inflow.” You can also follow me on Facebook @michellebosch and on Instagram @michelleboschofficial. Thank you very much and until the next one.